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Thread: Percy Warner Trail Conditions Here - everyone post!

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylevee View Post
    The oversized log on humdinger is too large to be fun, it's just a chain ring killer. Small logs are fun, a log of this size ruins the flow of the trail and should be changed. You won't see a feature like this in any other mature trail system because it's not fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylevee View Post
    The oversized log on humdinger is too large to be fun, it's just a chain ring killer. Small logs are fun, a log of this size ruins the flow of the trail and should be changed. You won't see a feature like this in any other mature trail system because it's not fun.
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    I'm piling on. If you like log features, incorporate something like at Montgomery Bell's Back Blue or Hornet hill. A 30-36" log roll-over. That's a feature. 6-12" logs are not features. They are nuisances. No offense intended. Just an opinion.

    Gary

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    Sounds like some people are having trouble clearing the big log at PW . . . lol. I'd be ok with a cheater side piece for the whiners to go around it but I like the challenge.

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    Percy Warner Trail Conditions Here - everyone post!

    You guys are crazy the big log on Humdinger is by far my favorite log out there. And for those that said you wouldn't see one like this on a mature trail you can tell you don't ride very many trails. I see logs of this size and larger all the time because I ride lots of mature trails all over in many states. Oak Mountain has one just like it with no cheater logs. If you can't clear it then keep trying or walk it. I can clear it no problem at all and keep all my speed and flow. I perfected log clearing just like this at Mont. Bell years ago when nearly every trail out there had a log crossing this big or bigger with no wimpy build ups. I couldn't make them all till I worked on them for months it was a great challenge and reward when I finally did. Then the pansy patrol came in and cut them out or built them up so everyone could ride them blah blah blah. If everyone can ride everything then why ride anymore what is the challenge what brings you back? Nothing! Dumbing down trails is just that dumb. I'm not saying that trails can't be modified to improve flow but don't remove features just because they are hard and you can't ride them correctly. If someone cuts out the big log on humdinger then you better cut up the whole thing up because if you cut a slot out and leave some I'll be the first one to tie a come-a-long to it and drag it right back into place.

    What's next remove rocks from rocky top because it's hard and most of you can't clear it??? Then we must take out all the doubles and table tops on Wabash because I know you can't clear them and don't get me started ok the wooden jumps. Might as well pave the whole **** thing and call it a greenway ugh. Ok I'm getting off my soap box now :/.
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  8. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized_Michael View Post
    You guys are crazy the big log on Humdinger is by far my favorite log out there. And for those that said you wouldn't see one like this on a mature trail you can tell you don't ride very many trails. I see logs of this size and larger all the time because I ride lots of mature trails all over in many states. Oak Mountain has one just like it with no cheater logs. If you can't clear it then keep trying or walk it. I can clear it no problem at all and keep all my speed and flow. I perfected log clearing just like this at Mont. Bell years ago when nearly every trail out there had a log crossing this big or bigger with no wimpy build ups. I couldn't make them all till I worked on them for months it was a great challenge and reward when I finally did. Then the pansy patrol came in and cut them out or built them up so everyone could ride them blah blah blah. If everyone can ride everything then why ride anymore what is the challenge what brings you back? Nothing! Dumbing down trails is just that dumb. I'm not saying that trails can't be modified to improve flow but don't remove features just because they are hard and you can't ride them correctly. If someone cuts out the big log on humdinger then you better cut up the whole thing up because if you cut a slot out and leave some I'll be the first one to tie a come-a-long to it and drag it right back into place.

    What's next remove rocks from rocky top because it's hard and most of you can't clear it??? Then we must take out all the doubles and table tops on Wabash because I know you can't clear them and don't get me started ok the wooden jumps. Might as well pave the whole **** thing and call it a greenway ugh. Ok I'm getting off my soap box now :/.
    I think a little nerve was touched. Well written. Wow. I can see your point and I know how to walk stuff. And Michael, I know that I am I ride a mountain bike. ROFLMAO
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    Percy Warner Trail Conditions Here - everyone post!

    Compromise: Cheater line is a jump over the log.

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  11. #208
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    I rode Hamilton Creek on Sunday and am astounded at all the cheater lines. It is an endless source of frustration for all mountain bikers. Why ride Hamilton Creek if you want to make cheater lines? Go ride somewhere else or use the opportunity to improve your skills.

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    Ive ridden lots of trails lots of places I can clear it, its not a challenge and after a good climb it just doesn't enhance that section. How many who think its a challenge, created and use the ride arounds on the small wooden features lower on the trail? Aren't those "cheater lines"? Enough w the "if you can't handle it" attitude towards people who think the layout of it is not that great....
    Last edited by flatblackard; 05-27-2014 at 11:24 AM.

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    Percy Warner Trail Conditions Here - everyone post!

    I think we're making too much out of the logs. Yeah that one on Humdinger is painful but I don't think we need to start a war over it. I think the big cheater line problem on Humdinger is right after the drop followed by step up feature; the line following it was supposed to go over a couple little rocks but folks are going to the left, causing some trail fall off. As far as the jumps, I'll admit I go around the 3 wooden ones (I take the one to the wood berm and the zig-zag board). My skill level and my bike are just not quite ready for those but I love the challenge of the rest of that trail. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flatblackard View Post
    Ive ridden lots of trails lots of places I can clear it, its not a challenge and after a good climb it just doesn't enhance that section. How many who think its a challenge, created and use the ride arounds on the small wooden features lower on the trail? Aren't those "cheater lines"? Enough w the "if you can't handle it" attitude towards people who think the layout of it is not that great....
    But Alan - I doubt you would think a a log is a challenge. We have a lot of people that feel a 6 in log in the trail is a "feature." We can hop over these easy enough - I hardly even think about them.

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    Yes and I agree ,my point is nobody seems to, nor should they mind people making ride arounds on the wooden features so I don't get why there would be resistance to the idea of a ride around for that log for people who want to pedal that section fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flatblackard View Post
    nor should they mind people making ride arounds on the wooden features so I don't get why there would be resistance to the idea of a ride around for that log for people who want to pedal that section fast.
    i guess this might be where many of us differ. I would argue that if you can't ride the trail in the way it was designed, then you shouldn't be on it. let's face it, Nashville is not known for difficult trails. Hamilton Creek would be a beginner trail in many parts of the world. While I might agree that the placement of some of the logs are weird, and I would rather a big a$$ skinny to a 6 foot drop, that's not going to happen in Nashville. Especially if everyone is riding around the "difficult" stuff that we have now. i subscribe to the idea of having qualifiers on easily accessible trails, so that there is something at the start of the trail that helps you determine if you are capable of that trail. when we start modifying trail we are going down a slippery slope that I don't want to condone.

    Ride arounds are strongly discouraged in more developed and mature cycling communities, and typically frowned upon. Modifying lines to your skill is bad umkay.

    and that wasn't directed to you flatblackard, for all i know you are bike riding god.

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    haha Rest assured Im no MTB deity...not expecting a freeride park at Percy either but minor adjustments don't seem like such a crazy idea.
    Last edited by flatblackard; 05-27-2014 at 01:11 PM.

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    I think this is all getting blown way out of proportion. Homer (and me) just felt like those couple smaller logs across the XC trail were just out of place and more annoying and speed bumpish than actual features.

    For instance, if those fell naturally on any other point of the trail at Percy Warner or L4 or any of them, there is almost a 100% chance they would be removed as quickly as possible. They would be removed by some of the very people complaining that we are trying to dumb down the trail and don't know how to ride etc...

    Leave them, cut them out, whatever... just don't take them so **** seriously.
    fall mountains, just don't fall on me

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  23. #216
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    touche.

    while we (me) are in b!tch mode. How about the first descent off of humdinger? I used to ride trail left down the face of the rocks and someone dug a huge hole at the top that almost killed me. i completely forgot about posting about it. after the final climb that has the root at the top the trail splits around a tree. the right line steps down some rocks and you have to dodge a tree. the line to the left is what I am talking about. it was almost always covered with leaves/debris, but i am pretty sure that it was designed to be ridden. it takes a fair amount of commitment, but looked to be on purpose. have i been riding off the trail this whole time or was i sabotaged?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBreak View Post
    touche.

    while we (me) are in b!tch mode. How about the first descent off of humdinger? I used to ride trail left down the face of the rocks and someone dug a huge hole at the top that almost killed me. i completely forgot about posting about it. after the final climb that has the root at the top the trail splits around a tree. the right line steps down some rocks and you have to dodge a tree. the line to the left is what I am talking about. it was almost always covered with leaves/debris, but i am pretty sure that it was designed to be ridden. it takes a fair amount of commitment, but looked to be on purpose. have i been riding off the trail this whole time or was i sabotaged?
    I don't know if it was sabotaged or not, but that line on the left you like *IS* a line that was built on purpose by the guys at SingleTrack Trails. The right line is also valid, and so is the line I take through there on my superlightweight-can't-take-the-heat XC bike, where I turn down the left line, and cut over to the right line after the first drop. Ain't skeert of a little off camber. If someone dug a hole in that left line, we should see about getting it fixed. Lord knows if I get a trail/AM bike I'll be looking for that line.

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  26. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized_Michael View Post
    You guys are crazy the big log on Humdinger is by far my favorite log out there. And for those that said you wouldn't see one like this on a mature trail you can tell you don't ride very many trails. I see logs of this size and larger all the time because I ride lots of mature trails all over in many states. Oak Mountain has one just like it with no cheater logs. If you can't clear it then keep trying or walk it. I can clear it no problem at all and keep all my speed and flow. I perfected log clearing just like this at Mont. Bell years ago when nearly every trail out there had a log crossing this big or bigger with no wimpy build ups. I couldn't make them all till I worked on them for months it was a great challenge and reward when I finally did. Then the pansy patrol came in and cut them out or built them up so everyone could ride them blah blah blah. If everyone can ride everything then why ride anymore what is the challenge what brings you back? Nothing! Dumbing down trails is just that dumb. I'm not saying that trails can't be modified to improve flow but don't remove features just because they are hard and you can't ride them correctly. If someone cuts out the big log on humdinger then you better cut up the whole thing up because if you cut a slot out and leave some I'll be the first one to tie a come-a-long to it and drag it right back into place.

    What's next remove rocks from rocky top because it's hard and most of you can't clear it??? Then we must take out all the doubles and table tops on Wabash because I know you can't clear them and don't get me started ok the wooden jumps. Might as well pave the whole **** thing and call it a greenway ugh. Ok I'm getting off my soap box now :/.
    Come on, man!

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I don't know if it was sabotaged or not, but that line on the left you like *IS* a line that was built on purpose by the guys at SingleTrack Trails. The right line is also valid, and so is the line I take through there on my superlightweight-can't-take-the-heat XC bike, where I turn down the left line, and cut over to the right line after the first drop. Ain't skeert of a little off camber. If someone dug a hole in that left line, we should see about getting it fixed. Lord knows if I get a trail/AM bike I'll be looking for that line.
    I'm going to have to check that line!

    Gary

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    For any damage please post up pics to the trails site so we have a record. There are several lines in the large rocky section after you climb over the tree. Most of them are covered but there are at least 3 there, all but one is over my willingness to risk. The orignal to the far right has gotten a big drop in it from erosion and wear. May try to establish that line again.

    As for the big log we could possibly do a cheater log but if we did it would be out of the line and cause you to make an effort to go over there and use it. I will vote for not putting cheaters in the ride line, but that is just me. May have to get ok from parks to make any changes for that log. Also the logs on XC are changes and would require consent.
    Last edited by AustinB; 05-27-2014 at 08:02 PM. Reason: My typing brings all the tards to the yard...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinB View Post
    For any damage please post up pics to the trails site so we have a record.
    But it's mid Strava, brah.

    i just went and checked the hole and it's definitely still there. i got a closer look at why it almost wasted me. it's just before the rocks start, so i was probably riding a nose manual when i started the rocks. i was all bent out of shape at the bottom and almost wrecked off my normal drop line to left of the slot at the final move of that section.

    i'll snap a pic tomorrow, as long as it doesn't rain before ride time.

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    Now this is a message board with some snap. And I loved Michael's Post. Just how he feels and that's okay. No trail will ever be perfect. I have ridden worse stuff that seemed easier. It is so visual and sometimes it just looks easier when it is really more difficult. I can ride 98% of most any trail I have ridden and that is okay with me. If you think the stuff is bad at PWP, head to White Oak Mountain and get to the white rocks section. It was a 1/4 mile hike a bike for me of the 15 miles I rode when I was there. So that means I was able to ride 98.3% of the trails I rode. That section is crazy hard. Rocks growing out of the ground in all sorts of directions and on a very narrow corridor. And I loved seeing that section. You have to climb a lot to get there so bring you climbing legs. I would recommend this trail when you are in the Cleveland, TN area.
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  33. #223
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    If you aren't supposed to go around the obstacles on the black trail I would guess that 95% of people shouldn't be on it! The go arounds are going to happen. I will say I don't see very much if any mud riding damage. That should really stir the pot and give this forum some "snap."
    Last edited by Uzzi; 05-28-2014 at 07:59 AM. Reason: see not say.

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    Did I start this by saying that the trees and root were hard?

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    If you aren't supposed to go around the obstacles on the black trail I would guess that 95% of people shouldn't be on it! The go arounds are going to happen. I will say I don't say very much if any mud riding damage. That should really stir the pot and give this forum some "snap."
    I will "agree" people shouldn't go around the the obstacles, but I'm one of them. What baffles me is the cheater lines up top. The structures, I go around because I've already broken the frame on my Anthem once, but then most of the reason I ride that trail is to follow people I'm riding with down the trail. My favorite was a 14 year old girl doing the gap to structure after some of the guys with us chickened out. The looks on their faces? Priceless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    Did I start this by saying that the trees and root were hard?
    Not because they are hard but they were not flowy or fun. Then it just exploded from there. We are interested in feedback from all parties but some people have lost sight that some of the trails at pw are supposed to be challenging for this area. Not everyone will agree on every element on every trail and that is to be expected.

    Any changes that require approval will move at glacial speeds because it is a government body so dont expect anything to change quickly. There are already other changes required by parks for existing trails, not much but they will need to be done first.
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    Can I chime in and say I really love the off-camber root too? If you have enough speed and the right line, it doesn't even slow you down.

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    I have a dream of adding more difficult features out there. It won’t happen because like Austin said the bureaucracy makes change hard.

    One concern I have is the final wooden jhump. I always hit it but for those that don’t the left corner should be rounded. If you don’t hit it you are leaning towards the ramp on the left. If your tires get washed out I always have this image of someone’s eyeball getting impaled by the corner.

    One alternative for the log is to get a Depends underwear dispenser at the top of Humdinger. Just a joke…no hate email please!

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    Watch the corners some of them are really slick still. Ended up tacoing my front wheel on Wabash Left.... ugh.

    Depending on the amount of rain the trails will stay open. The majority of them are in fine shape. Rocks may still be wet as well.
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    saw a couple riding around without a helmet. They were climbing up toward humdinger. Yikes! Says on the trail map that helmets are mandatory.
    I have no clue what my signature should be….

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    Quote Originally Posted by TreyDownhill View Post
    saw a couple riding around without a helmet. They were climbing up toward humdinger. Yikes! Says on the trail map that helmets are mandatory.
    It's like being told to wear a seat belt. Bad **** is going to happen it is just a matter of when and how bad it is. Be smart and keep your brain around for the long haul. Or perhaps they have already hit their heads a few times...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized_Michael View Post
    You guys are crazy the big log on Humdinger is by far my favorite log out there. And for those that said you wouldn't see one like this on a mature trail you can tell you don't ride very many trails. I see logs of this size and larger all the time because I ride lots of mature trails all over in many states. Oak Mountain has one just like it with no cheater logs. If you can't clear it then keep trying or walk it. I can clear it no problem at all and keep all my speed and flow. I perfected log clearing just like this at Mont. Bell years ago when nearly every trail out there had a log crossing this big or bigger with no wimpy build ups. I couldn't make them all till I worked on them for months it was a great challenge and reward when I finally did. Then the pansy patrol came in and cut them out or built them up so everyone could ride them blah blah blah. If everyone can ride everything then why ride anymore what is the challenge what brings you back? Nothing! Dumbing down trails is just that dumb. I'm not saying that trails can't be modified to improve flow but don't remove features just because they are hard and you can't ride them correctly. If someone cuts out the big log on humdinger then you better cut up the whole thing up because if you cut a slot out and leave some I'll be the first one to tie a come-a-long to it and drag it right back into place.

    What's next remove rocks from rocky top because it's hard and most of you can't clear it??? Then we must take out all the doubles and table tops on Wabash because I know you can't clear them and don't get me started ok the wooden jumps. Might as well pave the whole **** thing and call it a greenway ugh. Ok I'm getting off my soap box now :/.
    You missed the point. Although some can ride over it, and some can't, it doesn't help the flow of the trail. And you haven't ridden any good trails outside of TN if you think flow disrupting obstacles exist in other trail systems, they are usually removed by riders that frequent the trails. I could add a stop sign in the middle of the trail to make it more interesting for you.

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    Percy Warner Trail Conditions Here - everyone post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylevee View Post
    You missed the point. Although some can ride over it, and some can't, it doesn't help the flow of the trail. And you haven't ridden any good trails outside of TN if you think flow disrupting obstacles exist in other trail systems, they are usually removed by riders that frequent the trails. I could add a stop sign in the middle of the trail to make it more interesting for you.
    No I got your point of view perfectly my point was if ridden correctly it doesn't slow down nor mess up the flow of the trail at all. And for this particular trail it isn't a flow trail nor designed to be. It is a skills/obstacle trail and was designed to be difficult and throw different skill elements to the rider to make it fun for more advanced riders and challenge you to up your game to clear everything. If the log were on one of the Wabash "flow" trails then you would have a better argument about messing with the flow of that section. If a tree falls over that section it would be removed ASAP.

    But as with every element on the black trail each was thought out and deliberately added or incorporated on purpose. I think nothing should be removed or changed without being thoroughly thought out and a better reason than it is hard or slows me down.
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  52. #234
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    And I would like to add, when are you getting another bike? As for the riders without helmets, I have actually said something to a few in a caring manner. There is a way to do it. It would bum me to come up on someone out cold with no helmet. Hey, it hurts when you go down with a helmet.
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    Uzzi is offline You have ticks on you because you didn't weed eat the trail
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    "No I got your point of view perfectly my point was if ridden correctly..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    "No I got your point of view perfectly my point was if ridden correctly..."

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    LMAO
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    Percy Warner Trail Conditions Here - everyone post!

    Haha Robert I didn't even know that signature still showed up it is out of date several bikes since then. I use the taptalk app on my phone to access the forums exclusively I haven't connected from a computer in years. The signature doesn't show up on my phone.

    And yes Tim I'm in my 17th year riding MTB's that was pretty much my point that the section in question was primarily for advanced more experienced riders. But of course anyone can ride it and challenge themselves to clean everything that is the only way to get better. But don't complain or want to remove some element because it is hard or slows you down just work to make it over smoothly and not slow you down.

    I think we have beat this to death now. Don't remove elements from PW without prior approval and everyone just go out and enjoy yourself and ride your bike anyway you want. And keep a couple of chainrings in stock for this log haha .
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    So on a side note from all of this. I am fairly new to mountain biking and have mainly just biked PW. My first few times out there I got pretty turned around because the trails are marked by difficulty not name/map color. I just figured it was part of it. However, I've ran into others since then that also made the same mistake. Any chance we can mark the trails by a color for difficulty and either the name or a second color that corresponds to the color on the map? Just a thought...and it's something other than that stupid log/feature/obstacle/nuisance/flow killer/chain ring killer/etc.

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    Sorry, but you should learn your way around the trails the same way you should learn to get over the logs, features and other whatnots. You have to keep trying until you figure it out. The trail was built by professionals so it is flawless.

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    Working on adding signage beyond what already exists for the color code for the type of trail and no horses or walker allowed. As with most things it takes time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized_Michael View Post
    But as with every element on the black trail each was thought out and deliberately added or incorporated on purpose. I think nothing should be removed or changed without being thoroughly thought out and a better reason than it is hard or slows me down.
    Just like all the stubs in the middle of the trails...........

    Sorry couldnt help it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized_Michael View Post
    that the section in question was primarily for advanced more experienced riders.
    Are we talking about Hookman being for advanced riders?

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    "No I got your point of view perfectly my point was if ridden correctly..."

    Said the Expert MTB Racer on a carbon racing 29r
    I get it. If I were a better rider I would enjoy it. I'll call whistler and let them know that chain ring eating logs are the next big thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    Are we talking about Hookman being for advanced riders?
    No Gary this whole conversation has been about the big log towards the bottom of the black trail humdinger not hookman.
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    Ride your bikes and quit worrying about stuff on the trail. I cleared a small downed tree on Hookman. That is what we need to be doing, carrying clippers and folding saws every now and then. If everyone does just a little, it will be a lot. I like all the trails.
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    trail is wet and super muddy. Good yesterday afternoon but this morning wet. made it 50 yards in and didn't know what was going on. Saw another group and said it was the same or worse throughout. Turned around and went home. Lots of cars there and more coming in. The people I saw looked pretty muddy. Maybe it'll dry up quick.

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    maybe the rest was just slick, and not muddy. When I saw that I wasn't able to go fast, I had already decided to go back home. I didn't see very much actual trail.
    Last edited by SafetyBreak; 05-31-2014 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SafetyBreak View Post
    maybe the rest was just slick, and not muddy. When I saw that I wasn't able to go fast, I had already decided to go back home. I didn't see very much actual trail.
    Tom and I tried, but, got off at the other side of the BLVD and just did a couple laps on the pavement. Probably should be closed all day. Also, there's a neat little dial that could be useful at the trailhead.

    BTW, the new trailhead looks like it could be opened soon.

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    just got off the trail. little moist, but pretty good shape overall, a few slick spots, but nothing too bad. Hop and Humdinger were closed off and I was a good citizen and didn't go around the barrier. Things appear to be drying quickly.

    Saw a snake (rat snake) on the Boulevard and another one on the road in PWP going downhill near the BM entrance.

    btw, I just love that Hookman Hill piece...

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  74. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Tom and I tried, but, got off at the other side of the BLVD and just did a couple laps on the pavement. Probably should be closed all day. Also, there's a neat little dial that could be useful at the trailhead.

    BTW, the new trailhead looks like it could be opened soon.
    It looks like PW got rain early yesterday morning or overnight because the new section of the trailhead we built on Friday was still very wet. The new parking lot and trailhead are not yet open. Waiting on Parks to get their stuff together and give a date for opening. Also the new approach needs a bit of buffing. Someone rutted the crap out of it sometime Saturday, thanks for that btw. Barricade is up on that entrance for now.

    Closed Rocky top, too many wet spots and corners just too slick. Not as much fun when you cant rail those turns. Will check on them tomorrow morning. Still wet enough to remain closed today.
    -Austin

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