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Thread: Tubeless

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    Tubeless

    I am thinking of going tubeless, should I and if so what should I get I have a 2014 trek superfly 6 29r. Thanks for any help.

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    Switched to Stan's tubeless years ago, never going back. A bit more maintenance because you have to make sure the tires stay "wet" meaning you have ample Stan's inside the tire incase there is a puncture. The tire wont seal if there is no liquid in there. This is more of an issue in the summer since it gets so hot plus the heat of the tires when you ride. The only time i've had flats while running tubeless is because I let the tires dry out so they couldn't seal. Make sure you carry a spare tube/pump somewhere incase you do get a flat. Beats having to walk the bike out.

    With modern rims and tires you should not have any issues going tubeless. If there is an issue Stan's also makes a sealer strip that goes inside the rim that the tire bead pushes against to help seal when pressurized.
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    So the boys at Moab are taking my wheels and making them tubeless. Good info above from Austin. Any other words of wisdom?

    I know that everyone recommends it but i am not really sure what benefits I am getting... from Austin's comments it sounds like less flats, but I never really had an issue with flats... am I saving any weight? (FYI I am not a weight freak, just curious)

    Also sounds like I still need to cary a tube and pump. Any suggestions on CO2 systems?

    Thanks
    DCD

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    Tubeless

    I would also add a plug kit. It's kept me from putting a tube in when Stan's won't seal many times on cross and mountain tires. Also glitter or coarse ground pepper is a good additive to Stan's to seal larger holes.

    Once you get your bike on the trail it's good to experiment with air pressure. Depending on what size tires your running and your body weight you can go much lower than a tubed tire. On 2.0 tires I'd say a good start for 170lb rider would be 21 rear and 19 front. For a 200lb rider try 23 rear and 21 up front. You will find better traction and increased comfort. I'm around 170 and if I ride smooth I can get away with 18 rear 16 front on mostly dirt trail but at a trail like Hamilton creek I need to add 3 to both.

    Temperature and sidewall thickness can adjust these numbers as well as the pressure gauge differences so you'll need to find your own sweet spots.
    It's not that bad

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    I don't think less weight is a benefit of tubeless. I do think the ability to drop another pound or two of air (at 215 lbs I run 25 front 30 rear) over what you had to run to keep from pinching with tubes is a huge advantage. Also, given some of the places I ride, the peace of mind "no flats" gives you when you ride through the middle of a massive blackberry patch is...priceless. But yeah, carry a pump and a tube. Just in case. Also, carry something you can boot the tire with. The only time I ever needed to put a tube in a tire on the trail, the hole in the tire was so big the tire needed to be booted so the tube didn't hemorrhage out the hole.

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    The way to save weight with toob less is to run a standard (non tubeless specific) tire tubelessly. Saves you 2-3 lbs of rotational weight. You can do this fairly easily with Stan's Rims, tape and sealant. I can seat them with floor pumps because I am that amazing. And humble. However, Moab did hook me up with a larger volume Specialized pump and that makes it a lot easier. Running a standard tire requires a bit more air to prevent a burp, but for me, 30 in the back and 28 up front seems to work.

    I do remember rolling off the Triple-Op at Hammy with Nathan and when I landed, back wheel totally made the hugest farting noise. Pretty funny, though I lost most of my air pressure. The tire however, did not lose it's bead.
    Last edited by Uzzi; 01-22-2014 at 07:59 AM.

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    Check out some of these threads for more info: http://tennesseemountainbike.com/boa...earchid=670901
    Chris

    "Mountain biking is about adventure and the rediscovery of your childhood freedom. It removes you from the daily grind and puts you in an environment with endless possibilities - wildlife, epic views, a personal epiphany about what really matters, and tasting your endorphins after a long, hard climb. The reward is looking back at obstacles, that are now behind you, and feeling like anything's possible." - Gary Klein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikebrainmaniac View Post
    Check out some of these threads for more info: http://tennesseemountainbike.com/boa...earchid=670901
    Linky no worky

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    tubeless with regular tires gives you lower rolling resistance. Also, allows more compliant surface to your tire at point of contact, so better traction is sketchy climbing situations. I can really tell the difference here. I weigh 160, and routinely run 26 psi and have run lower, but very light duty jumping. In my experience, weight of tire is about a wash compared to light tubes.

    One more caution. Nobody tells you that your Stans can be wet, but depleted of its suspension of latex particles. I have punched a thorn into my tire and watched while the stans all ran out under pressure, but never sealed. Put a tube in and got home. later, realized that latex had all plated out inside tire. So renew your Stans sealant about every 3-4 months in the summer, and every 6 months in colder weather. I take tire off and dump out or mop out existing sealant. Then put in fresh.

    Also, Stans works so well, that if you have to go to a tube for some reason, be sure to check inside of tire carefully. You will likely have numerous existing thorns imbedded in your tire. These will flat your tube within 15 seconds after installing tube and starting to ride.

    I have never had any success with seating beads with a hand pump, so don't expect to be able to, even though there are some superhuman pumpers (Uzzi for example (ha)) on this board that can do it. Buy a cheap nail gun type compressor. Another trick is to remove the valve stem from the Stans-type presta stems and it opens up the air passage greatly, allowing instant seating. Use a blow gun nozzle with fine tip inserted into the stem. Be careful not to over-inflate. (you can blow tire off of rim) Then put your finger over stem hole and then quickly screw in outside part of 2-piece stem. Not as hard as it sounds.
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    Well let me say this - when the tire is new, it's a lot easier to get it to bead up with a regular floor pump. Having a hi-volume pump makes it easier, but every now and then I have to sacrifice a Co2 or take to Moab. I have a 100% success rate with new tires, as they stretch and wear, the success rate goes down, even with a good floor pump. Compressor is on my list of things to acquire in 2014!

    Bob is right about the little tiny latex balls. Without those you are wasting your time. You really have to shake the bottle before you use it in your tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kindacreeky View Post
    Buy a cheap nail gun type compressor. Another trick is to remove the valve stem from the Stans-type presta stems and it opens up the air passage greatly, allowing instant seating. Use a blow gun nozzle with fine tip inserted into the stem. Be careful not to over-inflate. (you can blow tire off of rim) Then put your finger over stem hole and then quickly screw in outside part of 2-piece stem. Not as hard as it sounds.

    use ear protection and the compressor OUTSIDE of the garage. when i got my stans rims, i tried mounting up my maxxis ignitors that i had been running tubeless on other rims for a year. they blew off the rims at 25 psi. It sounded like a gunshot. my neighbor was outside and came over to make sure i was ok. I had stans all over my pants and shirt.

    the tip about removing the valve core is the best way to do it. my compressor has one of the blow gun nozzles with a rubber tip. it only takes a few seconds of pumping air into the wheel to get the beads seated. after that, you can fill the wheel up with stans through the presta valve.
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    a little soapy water on the rims will help them seat as well. I've done it the completely non professional way with a floor pump and so long as I rotate the wheel once I start to get some pressure, I can seat the bead with soapy water and then top it off after the first 15 minutes of the stans finding all the seams. So far, I'm just lucky
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    Ok, here is my best secret: Brush on Stans sealant instead of soapy water all around the rim edge and tire seat area. pretty messy, but I have mounted tires and had no bubbles with soapy water test immediately after mounting.
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    And Stephen, I had that explosion experience too. quite a surprise. I was using Kenda Karmas and on an old rim on my Fat Chance. Had no idea this could happen. Very loud explosion. Blew tire about 30 ft across the basement, and Stans blew everywhere. then carefully got it to seat, took out to MB trail, and within the first 200 yards, tire blew off the rim. So some rims are just too small, or tires too large (and stretched).
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    I found that after blowing one off the rim, it won't seat any more. Just keeps popping off...

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    I found that after blowing one off the rim, it won't seat any more. Just keeps popping off...
    everything that i've ever read says that after a tire blows off the rim once, it isn't suitable to run that tire as tubeless anymore. it damages the tire bead when it blows off the rim.
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    I've had 2 tires blow off, they never stayed on again. even if they would appear to set up for a while, 15-20 minutes or more later boom! I just had to make peace with it and toss em. sucks.
    fall mountains, just don't fall on me

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanthelyon View Post
    I've had 2 tires blow off, they never stayed on again. even if they would appear to set up for a while, 15-20 minutes or more later boom! I just had to make peace with it and toss em. sucks.
    I am Facebook challenged.

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    Tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanthelyon View Post
    I've had 2 tires blow off, they never stayed on again. even if they would appear to set up for a while, 15-20 minutes or more later boom! I just had to make peace with it and toss em. sucks.
    Kenda's?
    It's not that bad

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    Schwalbes. After digging around a bit they had some issues with a run a few years back. Been through 2-3 since and haven't had any problems.
    fall mountains, just don't fall on me

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    Bust a couple eardrums; pay several K for hearing aids; then go back to the easy way of putting the Stans in the tubes; run sub-twenty if you want with no problem with flatting; ask the Maintainer. Do replenish the Stans every year or so. If the weight of a couple tubes bothers you; get a single speed.

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    Re: Tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by bud View Post
    Bust a couple eardrums; pay several K for hearing aids; then go back to the easy way of putting the Stans in the tubes; run sub-twenty if you want with no problem with flatting; ask the Maintainer. Do replenish the Stans every year or so. If the weight of a couple tubes bothers you; get a single speed.
    Less time fixing flats.. More time building double track.
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    Keep it under 30psi with tubeless and you should be good, regardless. If you have a good set of tubeless wheels, and tubeless tires, you should be able to keep pressures anywhere from just high enough to keep it on the rim to the top end of what's on the side of the tire. The rims on my Anthem are "not tubeless compatible" according to Giant, officially, but with a wink and a nod, all you need is some Stan's tape and a decent set of tires. I've got Maxxis Ardent's front and rear (2.4/2.25) right now, and when they seated not a single drop of sealant ever came out of the side walls or around the bead of either tire.

    I don't pinch flat that often running tubes, but comparatively speaking, tubeless is bullet proof, especially if you end up riding trails that go through the middle of a briar patch. It's sort of made me of a mind that if it isn't tubeless, its useless.

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    OK so I posted last month about moving to tubeless... I have had two rides and still trying to find the sweet spot on pressure... anything below 40 psi and I feel like I am going to roll the tire off the rim. Is this "soft" feeling something I should just get used to? Also that soft feels slow..???

    Also still a little unsure as to when (this spring or summer) I will need to put more gu in my tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog36 View Post
    OK so I posted last month about moving to tubeless... I have had two rides and still trying to find the sweet spot on pressure... anything below 40 psi and I feel like I am going to roll the tire off the rim. Is this "soft" feeling something I should just get used to? Also that soft feels slow..???

    Also still a little unsure as to when (this spring or summer) I will need to put more gu in my tires.
    Are you running rims designed for tubeless use? Approximately what do you weigh with the gear on that you ride in?

    The frequency with which you need to add new sealant will depend on where you store your bike and the tires. Replace the fluid around November and you should be good till the spring. If you are running tires with thinner side walls and/or store the bike in a hot garage you may have to add more sealant as frequently as every 4-6 weeks during the summer. Tires with thick sidewalls on a bike stored somewhere that is temperature controlled and you can probably go four months. Easy way to check...take the wheel off the bike and shake it. If you don't hear anything sloshing around, time for some new sealant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasilyObsessed View Post
    Are you running rims designed for tubeless use? Approximately what do you weigh with the gear on that you ride in?

    The frequency with which you need to add new sealant will depend on where you store your bike and the tires. Replace the fluid around November and you should be good till the spring. If you are running tires with thinner side walls and/or store the bike in a hot garage you may have to add more sealant as frequently as every 4-6 weeks during the summer. Tires with thick sidewalls on a bike stored somewhere that is temperature controlled and you can probably go four months. Easy way to check...take the wheel off the bike and shake it. If you don't hear anything sloshing around, time for some new sealant.
    Thanks.

    I am prob 205+ with camelback stuffed with goodies. (No string bean here)

    Bike in garage/basement so it never gets hot there... constant 70 degrees

    I have no idea on the rims. The guys at Moab suggested it last month when the bike was in for a little love. I would assume so, I am on a 1 year old Specialized Epic Comp. I would guess that they would not have suggested it if the rims were not made for it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog36 View Post
    Thanks.

    I am prob 205+ with camelback stuffed with goodies. (No string bean here)

    Bike in garage/basement so it never gets hot there... constant 70 degrees

    I have no idea on the rims. The guys at Moab suggested it last month when the bike was in for a little love. I would assume so, I am on a 1 year old Specialized Epic Comp.
    Assuming you're still running the factory Fast Trak 2.0 S-Works/Control tires and factory wheelset, try 25 - 27lb in the front and 28-30lb in the rear at your weight. The Specialized rims are tubeless ready (Specialized actually ships valves with them) and you shouldn't have any problems with rolling a tire at those pressures.

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    At least this happened to me. After new tires are seated they would leak air. It took a couple of rides to get them to the point they wouldn't leak. I always carry a tire gauge so when I the tires started to feel right I check the pressure. Ever since then I've know what I like. I worked mine out at cane ridge. Quick laps make it easy to experiment and ride the same terrain. I did have one blow off over there. Lost that tire for good. Enjoy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username View Post
    At least this happened to me. After new tires are seated they would leak air. It took a couple of rides to get them to the point they wouldn't leak. I always carry a tire gauge so when I the tires started to feel right I check the pressure. Ever since then I've know what I like. I worked mine out at cane ridge. Quick laps make it easy to experiment and ride the same terrain. I did have one blow off over there. Lost that tire for good. Enjoy
    OK so still getting used to tubeless... walked down to the garage yesterday to go on a coffee run and I had two dead flat tires... used a normal floor pump to put air in them. White foam starting coming out of the valve stem of one of the tires... eventually got them both full and they appeared to hold air. Ended up riding about 20 miles on the road and they did fine..

    Is this normal or should I have them checked? Or just wait until I go to the garage and they are flat again?

    Thanks
    DCD
    Last edited by dirtdog36; 03-02-2014 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: Tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog36 View Post
    OK so still getting used to tubeless... walked down to the garage yesterday to go on a coffee run and I had two dead flat tires... used a normal floor pump to put air in them. White foam starting coming out of the valve stem of one of the tires... eventually got them both full and they appeared to hold air. Ended up riding about 20 miles on the road and they did fine..

    Is this normal or should I have them checked? Or just wait until I go to the garage and they are flat again?

    Thanks
    DCD
    Was it coming out at the base of the valve stem?
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    I just mounted two Continental tires and they were fine the first three rides. Then flatter than flat. I shook the tire and could hear nothing sloshing around. I went thru the process again of putting in sealant thru the valve stem and that solved the problem. Some tires are A LOT more Porous than others. I would never go back to tubes, ever.
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    Tubeless conversions (Non-UST setups) will do this especially in the winter. I always check tire pressure before I ride.

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  43. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by drwx View Post
    Was it coming out at the base of the valve stem?
    Yes at the base of the stem... checked them today and still holding

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I just mounted two Continental tires and they were fine the first three rides. Then flatter than flat. I shook the tire and could hear nothing sloshing around. I went thru the process again of putting in sealant thru the valve stem and that solved the problem. Some tires are A LOT more Porous than others. I would never go back to tubes, ever.
    I shook the tires and there was still sealant sloshing around... thats why I tried to put air in them and see what they would do...

    So it sounds like I need to keep extra sealant just like keeping extra tubes...

    As I said "still learning"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog36 View Post
    Yes at the base of the stem... checked them today and still holding
    before i mount my stems, i paint the bases with sealant where it will seal against the rim. i then use a rubber o-ring on the outside between the rim and the stem nut.
    --
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