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Thread: Percy Warner Racing

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    Percy Warner Racing

    Hey. I was wandering if there ever was a race planned for Percy Warner??? Maybe a short dh down humdinger or Hop project? Thanks
    I have no clue what my signature should be.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/u/treydownhill/

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    No races are currently planned for PWP atm.

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    Trey -

    We need a new generation of race promoters, racers and visionaries to take our MTB scene to the next level! This could be you! No reason why we couldn't have some fun time trials on one of the blue flows, or even the blue trail after the advanced sections.

    Of course, there is nothing stopping anyone from meeting out at PWP, putting 5 bucks in the pot, a couple of cell phones, a clipboard and a ton of fun!

    Tim
    Last edited by Uzzi; 08-11-2014 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    Trey -

    We need a new generation of race promoters, racers and visionaries to take our MTB scene to the next level! This could be you! No reason why we couldn't have some fun time trials on one of the blue flows, or even the blue trail after the advanced sections.

    Of course, there is nothing stopping anyone from meeting out at PWP, putting 5 bucks in the pot, a couple of cell phones, a clipboard and a ton of fun!

    Tim
    just don't move any rocks or logs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drwx View Post
    just don't move any rocks or logs.
    that's moving the fun
    I have no clue what my signature should be.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/u/treydownhill/

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    I've been thinking about an informal Time Trial series. We do it over 8 weeks, running each trail twice over the series. The Timer starts and stops at the beginning of each loop. Racers start 30 seconds or 1 min apart. So first week Hookman, the next week Toybox, then Blue flow, lastly the Rocky top trail, then we repeat all four. Each evening you get two attempts - best time counts, and each trail is TT'd twice in the series - best time counts.

    Now with the Blue Flow and Rocky Top trails we could either A) run the trail twice to pick up both options in a single run B) run the trail once picking your favorite option.

    Best bet would be to pick an off night (Like Tuesday or Thursday) Or run it early, early on the weekend.

    As for winning everybody could pay in $1 for each race or $5 for any and all races in the series, with the winner of each night getting the total pot. Or it could be free and the winner just gets the satisfaction of beating everybody. I've been organizing non-santioned races for a while now and one thing that's important is keeping the entry fee low, it guarantees higher participation as well as bringing in NOOBS who would otherwise be scared off by an actual race.

    I'm totally game to marshall this TT series. I have actually been planning on getting something together in the late fall, currently I'm running a guerrilla cross series through september.


    Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?
    Last edited by chasethis; 09-15-2014 at 01:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasethis View Post
    Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?
    If it's on a weeknight, I would be down.

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    Great idea! If were to add something - I would offer just some TTs on the downhill portions. You could do four right there.

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    A Ninja Name Tom agrees^^ but I would be down either way.

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    You are the Ninja Named Tom? Cool! I'm closing in on some of your Stravas! But ...yet still so far away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    You are the Ninja Named Tom? Cool! I'm closing in on some of your Stravas! But ...yet still so far away.
    Guilty. I haven't turned it on in a few weeks. I had a pretty bad crash in Pisgah a month ago probably b/c of strava. I wanted to get on the leaderboard on a trail that I know fairly well. Going to fast for conditions and high sided somewhere near 30mph. Separated my shoulder and badly bruised my iliac crest and had to hike/ride out. Things were not good for a couple of days after and almost cost me my Eastern BC trip this Saturday. I am not sure that I am mature enough for Strava.

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    and to chasethis...i don't know where your post went, but i agree strava is not accurate. someone just got one of my top dh's and there is no way in the world that they could get 10 seconds on me on that trail. not to mention that many times, it doesn't count the short dh's at percy for me. it thinks that i went straight down instead of using the trail. i wouldn't mind it a bit if strava disappeared. i just turned it on earlier this summer to see how fast people were going when the complaints started about PW.

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    Wow, what a side tracked thread. I'll make a couple of points, about pretty much everything in the thread so far.

    Strava: I started using it the first part of July. I've used Endomondo for a long time, but got pretty ill at it's lack of any sort of accuracy or consistency with elevation. I know this stuff is only going to be so good, but Endomondo was way, way off, even way out of agreement with some of the previous stuff it had given me on some rides. So I tried four different apps, and settled on Strava as actually having the most consistent, if not accurate, elevation figures. Distance and speed wise, pretty much all of them are hit an miss to the same extent. While I have exercised some curiosity in looking at the segments on stuff I've ridden, I've not put in any effort to take KOMs, mostly because of what SafetyBreak talked about.

    Some people I ride with think I'm A) very fast and B) very good because they "never see me crash" - in reality, I'm neither A nor B in my own opinion, I know way too many people that can ride me into a hole in the ground without breaking a sweat. The reality is, the years of experience I have riding give me bike handling skills that are pretty reasonable, and they keep me from crashing at the speeds that the really impressed people see me ride at on group rides. I ride much faster alone, and even then, I endeavor to not exceed my ability to control the bike - because crap like crashing at 30 mph is going past the point of a couple scrapes and bruises, into serious injury territory, and I simply don't have time for that.

    As for TT's at PW - I think it's a cool idea. I don't have a snowball's change in July of showing up at one, especially if it's on week day evenings, but that DOES seem like the most sensible time to do it.

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    Strava - there is a guy "Dirty Weve" - not sure how he did it, but blew up the times on some of the "downhills" at PWP. I think that trails that are covered by a canopy and have so many tight turns will always be hard for a satellite from 100 miles away to track to that level of accuracy. No app ever gets the mileage right - it cuts off about 2 miles at Hamilton Creek. It's still fun to at least see some improvement from week to week.

    Jim Simms and Michael Edens have a lot of the KOMs out there...Jim must be floating on air to get his time on ToyBox. What a beast!

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    Re: Percy Warner Racing

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    Strava - there is a guy "Dirty Weve" - not sure how he did it, but blew up the times on some of the "downhills" at PWP. I think that trails that are covered by a canopy and have so many tight turns will always be hard for a satellite from 100 miles away to track to that level of accuracy. No app ever gets the mileage right - it cuts off about 2 miles at Hamilton Creek. It's still fun to at least see some improvement from week to week.

    Jim Simms and Michael Edens have a lot of the KOMs out there...Jim must be floating on air to get his time on ToyBox. What a beast!
    You know you can edit your gpx files to get whatever time you want... Right?

    Also, I've read that actual GPS devices like the Garmin 510 are a lot more accurate since the GPS chip is better and they plot 1 point per second instead of the typical 1 point per 5 or 6 seconds with apps like endomondo, RunKeeper, and strava...... But they are hella expensive for a unitasker when my phone does a good enough job. I figure at worst I'm riding more miles than I'm getting credit for, since usually it's the corners that are cut off. Switchbacks look funny on all of my gpx tracks taken with a phone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi View Post
    Strava - there is a guy "Dirty Weve" - not sure how he did it, but blew up the times on some of the "downhills" at PWP. I think that trails that are covered by a canopy and have so many tight turns will always be hard for a satellite from 100 miles away to track to that level of accuracy. No app ever gets the mileage right - it cuts off about 2 miles at Hamilton Creek. It's still fun to at least see some improvement from week to week.

    Jim Simms and Michael Edens have a lot of the KOMs out there...Jim must be floating on air to get his time on ToyBox. What a beast!
    two things- like drwx says having an actual gps device is amazing! my garmin is far more accurate than running a phone app is, but there are still limitations to the gps due to possible canopy cover and also switchbacks where the gps tracking shows you as going 0mph even though you're going a solid 2.5mph. . i've just added an actual speed sensor which does increase the accuracy on the garmin during these times, but there are still times when the mapping goes crazy and doesn't exactly track my ride. I mainly use it to compare efforts and track mileage/elevation.

    2nd point- simms and edens are both beasts. i even got spanked at a race by little simms at chickasaw. if only those guys were buttholes i could be mad about it, alas they're all super nice...
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    No Strava ever for me. Just ride within myself and sometimes, I still hit the deck. But not at 30 mph in Pisgah. Holy crap Thomas. I am glad you are still alive. I have read of roadies being killed trying to beat a Strava time.
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    Yeah, Robert. No Strava or Facebook, but ride 6 hours a Sunday and 5 of it's climbing! Keep it up, bro!

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    Yeah, Robert. No Strava or Facebook, but ride 6 hours a Sunday and 5 of it's climbing! Keep it up, bro!
    I do not ride for 6 hours every Sunday. Sometimes a little more, sometimes, a little less. I just never got the Strava thing. I figure a race is a race and training is training. When there are other users on a trail, no one should expect them to just stop and yield the trail to us immediately because they are on a Strava time trial. My .02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I do not ride for 6 hours every Sunday. Sometimes a little more, sometimes, a little less. I just never got the Strava thing. I figure a race is a race and training is training. When there are other users on a trail, no one should expect them to just stop and yield the trail to us immediately because they are on a Strava time trial. My .02.
    i dont think you fully understand the point of strava and other apps like it (endomondo, runkeeper, mapmyride, etc.). I use endomondo for doing the actual mapping of my rides. it has live-tracking and hooks up with my HRM so that I can get a good idea of how many calories I'm burning and what heart rate zones I'm in the most. The live-tracking is nice because I'm frequently riding alone. I tell my wife that I'll be home at whatever time. If I'm not, she can look at the map and see if I've been stopped in the same place on the trail or road for a long time...and then call for help if needed. It lets me know my pace and I can figure out if I'm riding faster or slower than normal. after I get home, I export it to strava so that I can figure out if I'm any better than I was last time on specific trails or segments. I'm never going to get KOM on any of them and don't even attempt to. As long as I'm improving my own fitness, I'm happy. It's nice to look at a climb that on average takes you X amount of time... and then shave minutes or tens of minutes off of that time throughout the course of the year. You can look back and see if you are improving, staying the same, or getting worse.
    Last edited by drwx; 09-17-2014 at 07:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drwx View Post
    i dont think you fully understand the point of strava and other apps like it (endomondo, runkeeper, mapmyride, etc.). I use endomondo for doing the actual mapping of my rides. it has live-tracking and hooks up with my HRM so that I can get a good idea of how many calories I'm burning and what heart rate zones I'm in the most. The live-tracking is nice because I'm frequently riding alone. I tell my wife that I'll be home at whatever time. If I'm not, she can look at the map and see if I've been stopped in the same place on the trail or road for a long time...and then call for help if needed. It lets me know my pace and I can figure out if I'm riding faster or slower than normal. after I get home, I export it to strava so that I can if I'm any better than I was last time on specific trails or segments. I'm never going to get KOM on any of them and don't even attempt to. As long as I'm improving my own fitness, I'm happy. It's nice to look at a climb that on average takes you X amount of time... and then shave minutes or tens of minutes off of that time throughout the course of the year. You can look back and see if you are improving, staying the same, or getting worse.
    Thanks for the clarification. You use it for your records. That makes sense. However, a lot of people use it to compare themself to others. That can present a problem, IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    When there are other users on a trail, no one should expect them to just stop and yield the trail to us immediately because they are on a Strava time trial. My .02.
    you don't have to yield...i will pass you in the brush.

    there are alot of stravassholes out there but mostly they're confined to the limitations of drop bars. strava is how i keep tabs on how i'm doing ride after ride, as well what my buddies are doing that live in other cities. a buddy in pittsburgh rides all these crazy trails and one day i will join him for a weekend but for now i'm confined to checking out his rides on strava. And i can see my teammates' rides and we can hold each other accountable for riding volume. some people haven't bought into the idea of social media, but essentially strava is only for people who like to do what you do, ride/run. and of course we are comparing ourselves to others! that's the desire to get better! do i get bummed when i'm on fire on a segment and all of a sudden a dog/child/hybrid appears around the next turn? NO. the trail is for everybody, and i'm glad that its getting used by everyone. i slow down and say hi, and after safely passing, i re-ignite the fire. race day is the only sure bet to prove your legs without interruption, but in the mean time i'm going track my rides, go home upload them and see that I am only "this much" off the fastest pace ever set. strava and other tracking apps have there problems but by and large, they are effective tools for us to track our fitness/ability gains and losses.
    Last edited by chasethis; 09-17-2014 at 10:15 AM.
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    Well I am totally guilty of comparing myself to others. Why in the world would I buy this expensive bike and ride all the time? Since I mostly ride by myself, I find it fun to try to beat my times. Every now and then I get into the top ten and I think that is pretty fun. When I come upon people during a segment, it doesn't bother me - and should not bother anyone else. Especially if you riding on a weekend. PWP especially gets pretty busy.

    You guys noticed the bikes people are dragging out of storage to ride out there? I think it's great that Percy is getting so many people excited about mountain biking.

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    Accessible trails do that sort of thing. PW was bound to have that effect, and it's great. Heck, one of our guys stopped a truck load of dudes at Ford Street the other day - they were wearing flip flops and unloading some Walmart brand bike-shaped-objects - and asked them what they were up to. Their response? There's a mountain bike trail here, right? He broke it down for them, and advised them to at least put some shoes one before they came back and destroyed their bikes on the trail.....

    ....Riverside bikes used to have a hard time selling full suspension bikes. Since North Ford opened, they can't keep them in the store.

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    i remember being that guy when I first started...no helmet or water bottle doing laps at hammy on my mongoose.
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    Me too man!

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    i know this was mentioned earlier above but I would be down to set up some formal/informal TT events at Percy. I have some experience running races and may be able to get a local sponsor or 2 to throw some goodies for top finishers. Thoughts?

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    The Thriller

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG6oy46qKE4

    I think I wish I could handle a bike as well as this guy could dance.

    I also think some type of time trial would be nice at PWP but it is going to not be easy to find a loop without a backwards direction.
    Last edited by Robert; 09-22-2014 at 07:42 PM.
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    TT Routes (not in any particular order):

    #1

    photo 1-2.jpg

    The shortest of the routes, with very minimal overlap, if any at all (we move the start up the trail a few feet to avoid this). Overlap on multi-directional trial shouldn't cause a problem if we a) split the trail and/or b) get our start times evenly spaced.

    #2

    photo 2-2.jpg

    This one is my favorite. However this is some overlap. Overlap occurs at the wide part of the multi-directional trial and can be split outside and inside (coming out of hookman rider stays outside/left, coming out of Toybox rider stays inside/right).

    #3

    photo 3-2.jpg

    This one has no overlap and is the longest as well. Only problem is that the finish presents a logistical problem for getting people back to their cars.
    Last edited by TheThriller; 09-22-2014 at 08:22 PM.

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    I don't think we need to over think this, I mean it's a lollipop design. Do a TT on Hookman. Do a TT on ToyBox do a TT on the Blue Flows. I think there would be enough interest in that alone.

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    We can certainly do that, it would just be hard facilitating traffic on the multi-directional trail. I can get a mock up of it uploaded tonight. If there is some consensus on what TT route is preferred, we can work on a good start date/time. We would probably have to communicate this to someone but as a new area rider, who should I contact?

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    K.I.S.S. No crazy routes...lets just do each trail. start/finish at the beginning of each loop

    alright so day/time suggestions? i like tuesdays or thursdays maybe around 7ish?

    its starting to get dark earlier. almost to the point where this might need to be a nightlight series. which is good considering we would have the trails to ourselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThriller View Post
    We would probably have to communicate this to someone but as a new area rider, who should I contact?
    lets keep it Unofficial...no permits, registration, insurance, TBRA to deal with
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    So three separate TTs? That could be fun with winners for individual trails and overall time. Plus it would be easier to cycle riders through.

    And I was thinking Tues/Thurs as well. Nighlight could be really fun, although it might limit some of the participants (those that don't have lights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasethis View Post
    lets keep it Unofficial...no permits, registration, insurance, TBRA to deal with
    We can do that, I'm do whatever the mtb community wants to do, i'll just set it all up and time it.

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    You need to contact no one! Just set the date and time

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    I think lights are going to be essential. It's getting darker earlier everyday. I was there 6-7pm last night and within a few weeks that's going to be have a light requirement. If its too early during the weekdays most people won't be off work in time to make it(myself included). Granted if we are planning on doing this at night-there's no reason we couldn't just make this a fri/sat event.

    Also (read my post above concerning format) I'm thinking 4 TT's. One on each trail-1st week hookman, 2nd week rocky top/humdinger/hop project, 3rd week toybox, and finally wabash. then repeat all four. best time of the two attempts counts.

    we will need two timers-one to count em off and the other marshaling the finishing time. but this will be easy considering we start everyone a exactly a minute apart, start the stop watch with the first to go and then record times as each person comes in subtracting their starting time. The last people to go will be the marshals-the first finishers can take over recording so that the marshals can make their runs.
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    How do we feel about the first TT either Tuesday or Thursday this week at 6:30?

  54. #39
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    Non-sanctioned, non-permitted, and uninsured race being held on Metro property on trails that have barely been open a year...what could go wrong

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  56. #40
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    Just a few guys riding together who want to time some laps? Sounds like fun to me, it's not like we're doing a parking lot crit with 50+ riders.

  57. #41
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    Strava is a four letter word with six letters! I find it offensive., please keep it to yourself.
    ERIC
    A Shutes Branch Maintainer

    Cannondale Trigger 29er 3

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    Soma San Marcos, with vary nice shiny bits. My favorite ride!

    Panasonic Tourist 3 speed cruiser (Way cool)

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  59. #42
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    Uzzi is offline You have ticks on you because you didn't weed eat the trail
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    This sort of thing happens all the time - we just don't know about because it's like a secret among friends. I say we keep it that way as well. The only issue is if you have some civilians crashing the party. It's not like you can close Hookman and tell people they can't ride it because we are having a race.
    Last edited by Uzzi; 10-10-2014 at 11:17 AM. Reason: It's a secret

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