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Thread: Metro Parks Public Meetings - Attendance needed

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    Metro Parks Public Meetings - Attendance needed

    Metro is holding meeting From Feb 25 - March 3 at various locations. We need lots of mountain bikers to attend and speak.

    http://www.nashville.gov/parks/pdfs/...MPMeetings.pdf

    This is for input to their Parks master plan. I would propose that mountain bikers attend these in great numbers and speak in favor of one or more new trails being developed. There is some talk of making a trail at the new land that Percy Warner is acquiring, but it is a relatively small parcel, and we would do real good to get 3-4 miles of trail in there. We should ask for that. But, I want folks to explain that mountain bikers need 12-15 miles of trail just to make it a worthwhile destination. Hamilton Creek is (i'm guessing) 13 or so, on about 240 acres. Mont bell is packed in with 24 miles on 240 acres. So Metro needs to develop a 12-15 mile trail on about 250 acres or more. The terrain needs to be hilly, and that topography can be found in abundance in north west Davidson County, in the same vicinity as Beaman Park. You can suggest that this use be considered for Beaman (which is largely undeveloped), but that may be a long shot. Metro needs to acquire a piece of property with mountain biking as the main purpose, so the other users will not get designs on it.

    Please come out for these meetings.
    --Bob S.
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    Hermitage Meeting

    Hello All,
    I will be at the Hermitage Police Precinct meeting on the 24th, Monday Night. If you plan to come, look me up.

    Also, I have met with the Greenway Director a couple of times lately and as the meetings will state, some of the key projects are coming to fruition. One thing I did learn is that on the Stones River Greenway at Ravenwood, Metro even owns Stone Hall. This is the House, Barn and cabin over the water. I live on the hill above and very excited about being able to ride from the dam to Shleby Bottoms.

    Show your community support and attend one of the local meetings. Let me know if you need more details or email:
    jane.laub@nashville.gov

    Note that the website has not been updated with the meetings for next week.
    http://www.nashville.gov/greenways/index.htm

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    more info

    here is the email:

    Dear Greenway Friends:

    We need your help in ensuring that greenways and open space are prominently supported in the five-year update of the Parks & Greenways Master Plan by Metro Parks. Below are next week's public input meeting dates and locations and a website for emailing comments.

    It is important to have a good show of support at these meetings for expanding greenways and conserving more open space in Davidson County. We ask that you try to attend a meeting, or provide your input at Parks' website - see instructions below, to advocate for the necessary funding for continued expansion of our greenways network. Advocacy for greenways continues to be key in signifying to local officials the public support for greenways.

    Thank you for your time and assistance!

    Phil Ponder, President John Norris, Chair
    Greenways for Nashville Greenways Commission




    Community Meetings Scheduled to Update

    Metro Parks’ Master Plan






    Nashville, TN ---The Metropolitan Parks Department has scheduled five community meetings to give area residents an opportunity to help update the city’s Master Plan for Parks and Greenways. The meetings, planned for various sections of the city, are scheduled for the following dates and locations.



    Monday, February 25, 2008 6:30 p.m. at Hermitage Police Precinct,

    3701 James Kay Lane, Hermitage, TN 27076, Phone: 615-880-1776



    Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 6:30 p.m. at Una Elementary School,

    2018 Murfreesboro Road, Antioch, TN 37217, Phone: 615-360-2921



    Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 6:00 p.m. at Z. Alexander Looby Center,

    2301 Rosa Parks Blvd., Nashville, TN 37208, Phone: 615-862-8454



    Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 6:30 p.m., Warner Parks Nature Center,

    7311 Highway 100, Edwin Warner Park, Nashville, TN 37221, Phone: 615-352-6299



    Monday, March 3, 2008 at 6:30 p.m., Parkway Baptist Church,

    505 Cuniff Parkway, Goodlettsville, TN 37072, Phone: 615- 865-2325



    Citizens unable to attend the meetings can easily provide their input to the plan by logging on to the Parks’ Department website at www.nashville.gov/parks or writing the Parks Department in care of Master Plan Update, Post Office Box 196340, 37219-6340.



    The Parks and Greenways Master Plan was adopted by the Metro Parks Board in November 2002, after a year-long public process. Since then, implementation of the plan has resulted in a variety of new projects and addressed system-wide deferred maintenance.



    To date, Hadley, East, and Hartman community centers have been completed, and the Coleman Community Center will open this spring. The new Parkwood Neighborhood Center has opened, as has the replacement for the McFerrin Neighborhood Center. The South Inglewood center will open this spring as well. Additionally, the Watkins, Kirkpatrick, Looby, Morgan, Napier, Easley, West, Elizabeth, and Cleveland centers have undergone renovations.



    More than 90 new playgrounds have been constructed at elementary schools and parks under the plan, and the city's first skate park, along with new amenities at Wave Country are complete. Three new nature centers will be completed by the summer, and Fort Negley has been opened with a new interpretive center. Golf courses have seen considerable improvements as well. McCabe was totally renovated, while irrigation systems were at Harpeth Hills and Two Rivers were improved, and a new clubhouse constructed at Two Rivers.




    The first phase of new youth soccer complex was built near the airport, and improvements at Harpeth and Heartland soccer facilities were also completed. Sports fields were improved at West, Whitfield, Cedar Hill, and Seven Oaks parks, and a complete renovation of the Warner sports fields is currently underway.



    New parks have been added to the system at Public Square, Caldwell, Una, and Brookmeade, and Bells Bend and Beaman Parks opened to the public after capital improvements.



    The department has developed 36.5 miles of trail with approximately 14 miles are under development (planning, land acquisition, design or construction in progress). The greenway initiatives anticipate continued trail development along the Harpeth River Whites Creek, Richland Creek and Mill Creek greenways, and an extension from the Cumberland River Pedestrian Bridge to Opry Mills. In addition the Riverfront Redevelopment Plan has been completed, which envisions additional parkland downtown.









    The Metro Board of Parks and Recreation does not discriminate on the basis of age, race, sex, color, national origin, or disability in admission, access to, or operations of its programs, services, or activities. For TTY (relay service), call 1-800-849-0299. For questions, concerns, or requests regarding the American Disabilities Act call 862-8400.

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    Please Comment if you cannot attend

    I looked at Metro Parks site, and if you read the old 2002 version of the Master Plan, you get to a section that explains the planning process. The first phase is a public interest info gathering effort. That is what these meetings are all about. If Parks gets an overwhelming outpouring of demand for more mountain bike trails, then that activity gets more priority in the final plan. That is why we need to either attend or write a letter in support of the sport, and more local trails. Here is an address that I got off of their web site.

    Metropolitan Board of Parks and Recreation
    511 Oman Street
    Nashville, Tennessee 37203
    Phone: (615) 862-8400
    Fax: (615) 862-8414

    Roy E. Wilson, Director


    edit (see post below for correct address)

    Does anybody know if there is an email that we can use to send in input to the record for the meetings? imbachick? Dirtdog? you guys got a contact? I am sure we can get more participation if we can submit by email.

    I am going to the 6:30 meeting tonight at Warner Park Nature Center.
    Last edited by kindacreeky; 02-29-2008 at 08:03 AM.
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    This address was in that .pdf that you posted above Bob.

    Master Plan Update,
    Post Office Box 196340, 37219-6340

    you can supposed to send messages there if you can't attend a meeting.

    I am planning on attending the Warner Parks meeting tonight along with some of the Yazoo guys.
    Greg Lawrence
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    Great Report from last nights meeting

    I got a brief rundown from some fellow board members on the meeting last night. Everything sounds great. They said Metro's presentation runs for about 30 minutes and covers a lot of information. All looking promising for all interested parties.

    Report also states that they stayed around until all questions were answered/addressed.

    Tonight should be interesting.

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    Edwin Warner roll call

    hey yall,
    i'm going to the meeting tonight at edwin warner park. i was wondering if anyone else is going, and if so, whether we should meet up so that we can create a "mountain biker presence." thanks -d
    Last edited by barton24; 02-28-2008 at 12:19 PM.

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    Jones, Jackie (Parks) <Jackie.Jones@nashville.gov>

    e-mail sent - can't make the meeting. I recieved a very nice reply - probably automatic.

    Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by barton24 View Post
    hey yall,
    i'm going to the meeting tonight at edwin warner park. i was wondering if anyone else is going, and if so, whether we should meet up so that we can create a "mountain biker presence." thanks -d
    There are about 4-5 of us riding our bikes over there tonight. I'll be heading over from Franklin, others from Bellevue and Hillsboro areas.
    See you there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNcaveman View Post
    Jones, Jackie (Parks) <Jackie.Jones@nashville.gov>

    e-mail sent - can't make the meeting. I recieved a very nice reply - probably automatic.

    Steve
    Same here. I also sent her a bit of information concerning freeride/dirt jumps/skills park information; a lot of what Darryl and I have already talked about.
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    Warner Parks meeting tonight

    Doug and I plan to be at the meeting tonight.

    Shana

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    Sorry I couldn't be there tonight! Let us know how the Percy Warner meeting goes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRAMBlur View Post
    Sorry I couldn't be there tonight! Let us know how the Percy Warner meeting goes!

    If you have not made it to one of these meetings you are only doing yourself a disservice. I think we had about 25 to 30 mountain bikers in attendance last night at the Edwin Warner Park Nature Center. Only one meeting remains. Next week in Goodlettesville. If you can make it go. The more that show up the more they understand the need.

    Robert

    Good to see Bob, Thad, Grant, Greg, David, Dan and many others at this session.

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    Meeting was productive.

    Metro has a big parks program. While they were doing their presentation, David Broemel who was sitting next to me noted that the pedestrian bridge across the cumberland river must have cost millions. I think it was something like 7 million. anyway, the message is that they can make it happen if they feel like it is a priority. There is lots of trails money in Washington. Metro knows how to get it. We need to help them understand the need.

    There was minor mention of shared use of trails at Percy Warner like Tsali. I think if Parks would be realistic, they could make a plan like this happen. I rode those horse trails for years in the 80's and you talk about a work out. Of course the single track is better, but even the horse trails are so great from a hill and workout standpoint. I think we should push harder for that.

    They want to give us a trail in Bells Bend. There was a short offer in that regard. I responded that we need hills for a serious mountain bike trail. I want them to buy a parcel just for mountain biking. But I do not believe that Federal trails money can go to purchasing property. Sowith the present Metro budget, that may be unrealistic. Bells Bend would be a fine place for a beginner trail.

    There was a short mention of a dirt trail to parallel the greenway path. I think that idea should be pushed. They have the corridor, all we need is the approval. You know we could make some interesting trail along that corridor. In Lynchburg VA where my inlaws live, the greenway has a mountain bike trail that parallels it.

    Also, I feel like we need to ask Parks to reassess their plan for Beaman Park. Here is 1500 acres of hilly wooded ground, owned by Metro parks. (located north Davidson, but still close) The parks position is that the property will remain mostly completely undeveloped, not even a trail. They have a 12 mile hiking trail there, located at the east end of the property. Most of the land is not acessable without off-trail hiking. If they would dedicate about 300 acres of the back end of this land to allow SORBA to build trail, we would be in heaven. This land has hills like Percy Warner. I would submit that if the trail were hand built, the environmental impact would be insignificant. The soil is most likely Montgomery Bell type, very deep and fast draining. I would propose that we lay out and set about building 12 miles of killer trail. I would work every week. Lets get some comments in that regard.

    Here is what I wrote and handed in last night:
    February 28, 2008

    Metro Parks and Recreation
    Master Plan – Public Input

    I am Bob Slayden, a Nashville resident for my entire 57 years. In 1983, I sold my road bicycle and started a new sport of mountain biking. Now, 25 years later, I still love the challenge of the sport, both in the level of fitness required, and the skill needed to safely pursue the sport.

    I am here to suggest that Metro parks develop a new mountain bike trail park. Although we presently have a mountain bike trail located at the Hamilton Creek Park, that is only one mountain bike trail in the Metro Parks system. There is a significant need in the Nashville area for more such trail. One important thing to understand is that avid mountain bikers use this sport as a fitness tool, many individuals riding 2-5 times per week, 1-2 hours at a time. With today’s high gasoline costs, trails need to be convenient. Besides the Hamilton Creek Trail, area mountain bike trails include city owned trails in Columbia and Gallatin, Montgomery Bell State Park, and at Long Hunter State Park. This is a small list for our growing and active mountain biker population. Montgomery Bell’s mountain bike trail sees over 10,000 visitors per year, mostly from the Nashville area.

    For those who know nothing or little about mountain bikes, a mountain bike trail is not the same as a hiking or horse riding trail. Ideally, it is not a shared use trail, with the possible exception of experienced trail runners. The trail is narrow like a hiking trail, but designed with smooth flowing curves laid out for bikes, and with acceptable grades for geared mountain bikes. Whereas hikers easily deal with switchbacks, mountain bikes need smooth turns. The science of mountain bike trail building is now well established, and many trail design and construction firms exist.

    A good trail also needs to include significant grade changes. Most experienced riders want a trail that is both challenging with technical features, as well as level of effort to complete a loop. For this reason, the most popular trails include a good amount of hills. Trails typically includes some shorter and flatter sections for beginners. Most experienced riders would rather not ride on flat ground. For this reason, the Cumberland River bottoms areas like Bells Bend are not the best places to develop such a trail.

    A good trail will have routes that will be at least 12 miles long without riding the same trail twice. This is important, as bikes may average 5-10 miles per hour. Riders can get bored if the trail is too short, as multiple loops are ridden. The longer a trail is, the better. Trail density is certainly a factor. Urban area mountain bike trails are typically more densely packed than hiking trails. Hamilton Creek has about 11 miles of trail on about 240 acres. Montgomery Bell State Park has a popular mountain bike trail that contains an amazing 24 miles situated on the same size 240 acres. So to provide this trail, a sizable piece of property is needed.

    The best trail would be hand built, for the least impact on the woods, and the most satisfying finished trail to ride. Machine built trail is still fun to ride, however the creation of the trail cuts a wider path. As far as impact on the trail, non mountain bikers are surprised to find out that independent studies have reported that mountain bikes have the same or slightly less impact on trails as hikers. Mountain bikes are not motorized, and therefore do not tear the soil up like a motorcycle. Mountain bikes are quiet, and the sport has a low impact on nature.

    Metro Parks has land in Beaman Park that would be ideal for a mountain bike trail. The last time I asked, I was told that most of this land is being presently held as a natural area. I mention that park, just because it is just the perfect type of woods and terrain for a superlative mountain biking trail. That same northwest part of the county has the largest tracts of hilly and wooded land that would be suitable for this purpose. Regardless of the exact location, I challenge Metro Parks to have the vision to secure a new piece of property with high relief topography and develop it specifically for the enjoyment and fitness of Nashville’s mountain bikers.
    Lastly, I would like to mention that area mountain bikers have recently formed a Nashville Chapter of the Southern Off Road Biking Association. With over 2,200 members, the Southern Off-Road Bicycle Association (SORBA) is the largest nonprofit mountain biking organization in the Southeast. SORBA members work with land managers to create trails and trail systems for mountain bikers and other users to enjoy. Our club routinely hosts trail work days, where club volunteers build new trail and provide maintenance to our existing trails.
    Thank you for hosting this meeting, and I hope you will consider my suggestions.
    --Bob S.
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    Yep

    MTBC was very involved in the original meetings for the Beaman project early on and stayed on even though we were slowly worked out of the master plan for that park because of heavy lobbying from horse,hiking, and bigger influenece groups. Also, the topography is extremely steep which will require a major amount of work to build any trail system (It will require mechanized!) so it will really involve a big commitment from Sorba and many bodies showing up for ALL the meetings! This is where we fell short back then because the excitement and support of the mtb community petered off exponentially as Metro squeezed us out of the plan. You're definitely on the right track in getting every person who wants this oppurtunity to deluge them with emails and "in person" contact. I can't stress this enough because in these cases it's the only way to get their attention.
    I also toured the property at Bell's Bend with Geralyn Hoey and other Metro officials a few years back and it really is lacking in the elements that would make a "real" mtb trail. Most of it is wide open farm fields and fairly flat but yes their could be some nice greenway type trail put there. As far as the Stones River Greenway is concerned, there could be some trail created in small sections like the Percy Priest Dam area but not a continous corridor because of areas with no side right of way (cliffs,boardwalks,swamps,and too narrow of a shoulder).The area behind the water plant,Two Rivers Middle school,Mansion, and McGavock High COULD actually yield some nice trail lenght though and probably be incorporated into the cyclocross layout at the Wavecounrty section. I ride the greenway alot and have been looking at these spots for a while now and hoping for this very kind of idea to come about. But I agree with Bob in that the mtb community needs to come up with some ideas for these areas and present your case to Metro "right now" and stay on them until they relent!HA! There is great momentum right now and it just needs to continually stoked by everyone volunteering their time and efforts! Just my two cents on the matter!
    Last edited by swankmotee; 02-29-2008 at 09:19 AM.

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    Thats a real bummer we got pushed out of Beaman. What a waste of a park. The upper trail is the lamest hiking trail I have ever been on. The lower trail is great for hiking though. I hiked there on a Saturday and only saw one other person. The weather was perfect - 73 degrees and sunny. The terrain is perfect for a mountain bike trail! That sure is a shame that Metro established such a nice park and reserved it for so few visitors

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    Quote Originally Posted by encyclopediabrown View Post
    Thats a real bummer we got pushed out of Beaman. What a waste of a park. The upper trail is the lamest hiking trail I have ever been on. The lower trail is great for hiking though. I hiked there on a Saturday and only saw one other person. The weather was perfect - 73 degrees and sunny. The terrain is perfect for a mountain bike trail! That sure is a shame that Metro established such a nice park and reserved it for so few visitors
    To be really honest about that situation, MTBC as a group decided (afterthe planners had taken our reserved area plot on their proposal maps from being fairly sizable down to nothing) that it wasn't worth persuing because the terrain was so steep and would have taken an immense amount of effort that we at that time were not equipped to do. With only hand labor it would have taken years to get something built. Now, since Sorba has access to machines and the trailer, it should be alot more doable and a reachable goal.

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    Bob,

    Thank you so much for all of your support of all of us in the mountain biking community. Reading your proposal was just amazing. As I sat hear and read it all I could think of is how I can't see how such a well written proposal could do anything other than do wonders for all of us!

    Thank you also to everyone who has stepped up to make even just one of these meetings. I've personally been absent from them, and reading through these threads really makes me feel like I should be there as another member of the mtb community.

    It's great to have so many people who are willing to go to bat for their sport/hobby of choice, as it helps us all to have a place to ride, meet others, etc...

    Thanks again for everything! Thanks for posting your proposal - it's extremely moving to read through!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kindacreeky View Post
    There was minor mention of shared use of trails at Percy Warner like Tsali. I think if Parks would be realistic, they could make a plan like this happen. I rode those horse trails for years in the 80's and you talk about a work out. Of course the single track is better, but even the horse trails are so great from a hill and workout standpoint. I think we should push harder for that.
    [/I]
    When Darryl Glascock posted the findings of the Big South Fork Study, I copied it and pasted it for an occasion such as this. I e-mailed the study to Lisa King at the Warner Parks Nature Center and she said she would get it to the right person. I figure if they see that multi-use has and is working in other areas we stand a better chance of getting our foot in the door. I have run all of the trail system at Percy and Edwin Warner Park in the 80's when I ran a lot. Either the hiking or horse trails would be awesome and centrally located. The horse people are powerful and well-organized. Most of them are also not from Davidson County. Figure that one out. I just wish they would try it for 3 to 6 months to see if it would work. Make certain days hiking and mountain bike days and other days for horse use only. I would be happy to just have use of the hiking trails. 7 miles in PWP of pretty sweet single track and with a connector trail to Edwin Warner which has another 3 miles. Heck, I would be willing to pay $25.00 to $30.00 per year for a sticker that allows me to mountain bike there. I paid $35.00 for a state parks pass when that was in force. If this happens it will be a miracle and could benefit the running community as well. If this comes about we have to be on our best behavior and be aware that we cannot just bomb it as there will be other users. Oak Mountain in Birmingham is open to runners, bikers, and hikers and it works. It works at Tsali, Big South Fork, (even on the horse trails), Bowie Nature Center in Fairview,(horses there also), and the Ocoee. I am sure there are many other places that you all know of. Keep on sending stuff to the parks. If they see a need and feel enough of a presence we have a good chance of having a chance. That is all I want. Now get those e-mails written and be nice but show them what you want. If you live in Davidson County, your taxes go to the park systems so it is your money and all you want is a little more access.

    Robert
    Last edited by Robert; 03-01-2008 at 04:46 AM.

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    I don't live in Davidson County, but would gladly pay a yearly park fee to use the trails.
    I pay $40.00 a year for a park fee in Fla. & get my moneys worth in one week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    When Darryl Glascock posted the findings of the Big South Fork Study, I copied it and pasted it for an occasion such as this. I e-mailed the study to Lisa King at the Warner Parks Nature Center and she said she would get it to the right person. I figure if they see that multi-use has and is working in other areas we stand a better chance of getting our foot in the door. I have run all of the trail system at Percy and Edwin Warner Park in the 80's when I ran a lot. Either the hiking or horse trails would be awesome and centrally located. The horse people are powerful and well-organized. Most of them are also not from Davidson County. Figure that one out. I just wish they would try it for 3 to 6 months to see if it would work. Make certain days hiking and mountain bike days and other days for horse use only. I would be happy to just have use of the hiking trails. 7 miles in PWP of pretty sweet single track and with a connector trail to Edwin Warner which has another 3 miles. Heck, I would be willing to pay $25.00 to $30.00 per year for a sticker that allows me to mountain bike there. I paid $35.00 for a state parks pass when that was in force. If this happens it will be a miracle and could benefit the running community as well. If this comes about we have to be on our best behavior and be aware that we cannot just bomb it as there will be other users. Oak Mountain in Birmingham is open to runners, bikers, and hikers and it works. It works at Tsali, Big South Fork, (even on the horse trails), Bowie Nature Center in Fairview,(horses there also), and the Ocoee. I am sure there are many other places that you all know of. Keep on sending stuff to the parks. If they see a need and feel enough of a presence we have a good chance of having a chance. That is all I want. Now get those e-mails written and be nice but show them what you want. If you live in Davidson County, your taxes go to the park systems so it is your money and all you want is a little more access.

    Robert
    It will be a cold day in **** before the ole Bluebloods of Belle Meade ever let any bikes on the trails at Percy Warner or Edwin Warner! Sorry to throw a wrench in that thought but MTBC and a bunch of others through the years have tried time and time again to get some sort of shared use plan to be considered by Metro and The Friends of Warner Parks and the gist of the answer was never going to happen. They feel that if there is ever any mtb prescence on any of the main park trails then it would be license for riders to poach the hiking trails which are not designed for mtb use because of too many fall line drops and blind corners that would create head on crash scenarios. Also, they use the old lie about there isn't enough acreage available to have a mtb trail added into the existing system but yet they have added many new trail sections since telling us this. This was the whole reason Metro gave us HC was to get us off their backs back in the 80's when we were all riding over there and we were arguing about being a taxpaying user group that had a right to a place to persue our sport. The worst slam against us back then was the runners who were not supposed to be allowed on the horse trails were running all over the park and Metro did nothing about it when we complained! It's a really lame situation driven by old money Belle Meade types who control the purse strings at the Park and are the controling hiearchy of the friends group. I wish anyone who is willing to start a dialoge with Metro and the Park on this tired, old issue the best of luck and hope that some day, somehow we'll get an official designation as a user group there!

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